Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  141

  JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

  by Maximus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the october 1 watchtower 2001 features articles on training children "properly" and dealing with a "prodigal child.

  the latest inside u.s. figures reveal that 86% of jw children leave the fold, with some 29% who eventually come back for reasons of family ties, most never "reaching out.

  " that means over half leave permanently.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Hi, HS!

  My 99.9% statistic stems from local experience and what I hear various traveling overseers talk about.

  In our congregation there is not a single youth over the past decade that has completely avoided pressures to act different than they learn from WTS literature. This is what I meant. This includes everything from, pretending to "go in service" (movies instead), to studying playboy instead of The Watchtower, to driving under the influence, to fornication, to suicide.

  The best example we could muster right now would be a young man getting ready to go to Bethel who only a few years ago was… well you know, with an old copy of… against the wall… Our PO almost had a fist… I meant a fit. When his parents made him confess, there turned out to be more to the story than any solo action.

  As for how the figures Maximus asserted are found out, as you say, the WTS has COs doing all sorts of surveys, all the time. This is just one of them.
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  13

  Blood pudding Watchtower style

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wts recipe for conscientiously making and eating blood pudding: use dehydrated blood.

  its just that simple.

  according to wts policy, jws can use fractions of red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Do you have a recipe that includes dehydrated blood? It is worth a try.

  Yes. Take dehydrated blood, add water, and whatever else a known recipe indicates. A little douse of spirits might help too. :)
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  13

  Blood pudding Watchtower style

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wts recipe for conscientiously making and eating blood pudding: use dehydrated blood.

  its just that simple.

  according to wts policy, jws can use fractions of red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Maximus,

  I hear ya! All I can say is, "They wish." :)
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  13

  Blood pudding Watchtower style

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wts recipe for conscientiously making and eating blood pudding: use dehydrated blood.

  its just that simple.

  according to wts policy, jws can use fractions of red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  unless I am wrong red cells, white cells, platelets are all still banned as is.

  jayhawk,

  Yes, they are banned as is. But that was my point. Once they are dehydrated they are no longer "as is," they are but a fraction of what they were. The June 15, 2000 Watchtower spells out how accepting fractions of blood components is up to each person’s conscience. The WTS does not indicate what percentage of a component is acceptable, only that a fraction is acceptable.
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  13

  Blood pudding Watchtower style

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wts recipe for conscientiously making and eating blood pudding: use dehydrated blood.

  its just that simple.

  according to wts policy, jws can use fractions of red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma.

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  2. 
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  Marvin Shilmer

  WTS recipe for conscientiously making and eating blood pudding: Use dehydrated blood.

  It’s just that simple. Here is why:

  According to WTS policy, JWs can use fractions of red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma. Know what? Each of those components has some water in them. Of what significance is that? Simple. Once dehydrated only a fraction of each component is left, the part without water. So, if JWs use dehydrated blood for making blood pudding then they can conscientiously serve it for a meal during the next visit of the circuit overseer. Naturally, the circuit overseer does not have to eat it, but neither can he complain about it. All the homemaker has done is put perfectly good blood fractions to use.

  I know this all sounds bizarre, but by the letter of WTS law, them is the facts.
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  141

  JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

  by Maximus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the october 1 watchtower 2001 features articles on training children "properly" and dealing with a "prodigal child.

  the latest inside u.s. figures reveal that 86% of jw children leave the fold, with some 29% who eventually come back for reasons of family ties, most never "reaching out.

  " that means over half leave permanently.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  What's your experience with kids who lead double lives and who finally leave the organization?

  This elder’s experience: 99.9%, or more, lead double lives to some extent. Ultimately more than 60% leave the organization, often with most of their immediate family.

  The WTS is so concerned about these figures that they have selected a few long time Bethel elders to go out and informally interview parents and children about what is going on. If parents allow it, they tape record the session and take it back. I know some parents that have participated in this, and some of them offered pretty damning observations, like: too many meetings!
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  10

  Vietnam War Pioneers

  by MadApostate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during the same weekend conversation which stimulated my recollection of "1975 stockpiling", i also recalled the "vietnam war pioneer" phenomenon -at least that's what i call it.

  i thought i would post something about it to see if others remember this.. during the 1960s, when the draft started to supply troops for the vietnam "conflict", a phenomenon developed in our area, at least, and i'm wondering if this occurred nationwide?

  (i can't remember if this was officially handled in the mags and from the stage, or if it was just another one of those things that was affected quietly behind the scenes.).

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  Marvin Shilmer

  MadApostate,

  I remember what you describe as Vietnam War Pioneers.

  Apparently the local draft board in my area was more impressed with those they could classify as ministers rather than conscientious objectors. From what I recall, local elders (called Overseer, Asst. Overseer and Servants at the time) would only sign papers verifying ministerial status if the person asking for it was a regular pioneer or else held some other appointed capacity (i.e., Overseer, Asst. Overseer or Servant). I seem to recall many elders would not do this until at least a few months of achieving pioneer hours (I think was 100 hours back then). I don’t know if this was at WTS direction or not, but it sounds like something they would probably do. Elders at the time were inundated with these requests, and it seemed they basically took the view that if an individual sought classification by secular standards as a minister then let them show it full time.

  At the time, in our congregation every single male of draft age was pioneering. One got his time in by taking young unbaptized JW boys to movies. Turned out he was preying on them. After the war, just about every one of them stopped pioneering. Come to think of it, not one of them is a JW today. The two I knew the best stopped going to meetings the same year they stopped pioneering.
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  63

  Watchtower PR Statement 8-7-01

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  public affairs office.

  for immediate release august7, 2001 .

  sexual abuse of children is a terrible crime that can leave lasting emotional scars on its victims.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Hi, Bill.

  If you downloaded copies of these two jw-media.org press releases from THAT SITE, would you please send me copies of each by email? (I am not talking about copied and pasted versions) If you don’t have these, does anyone else here?

  It seems the WTS has removed both from their site! Thanks!
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  31

  Pedophilia, slander, the process, culpability

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1. jane doe reports her suspicion to elders that her jw husband is sexually molesting their two daughters.

  2. jw elders initiate an investigation.. 3. suspect husband denies the crime.. 4. children do not corroborate the accusation.

  5. medical examiners do not offer any corroboration of the accusation.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I'm going to keep this nice. You would be better served reading treatises on legal principles, rather than trying to interpret court opinions.

  Good day, MadApostate.

  I see on top of everything else, you cannot read. Or else you don’t take time to read what you should. The material I presented—that speaks for itself—IS a treatise on a legal principle. The conclusion is not my own interpretation. I have only offered an epitome of a qualified attorney’s interpretation.

  I suggest you check the reference and read the full text, something you must surely have access to in light of your extensive legalese resources and acquired MadExpertise.
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  31

  Pedophilia, slander, the process, culpability

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  1. jane doe reports her suspicion to elders that her jw husband is sexually molesting their two daughters.

  2. jw elders initiate an investigation.. 3. suspect husband denies the crime.. 4. children do not corroborate the accusation.

  5. medical examiners do not offer any corroboration of the accusation.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Just how do you think employers are held liable when one of their employees does exactly what you have outlined. Sorry but you are completely wrong!

  For MadApostate:

  Re: Supervisors acting within the scope of their employment (agents for their employer) and sexual harassment:

  While finding that the supervisors' conduct was clearly sexual harassment, the court of appeals reversed the district court's finding of liability on the part of the employer. Why? The supervisors were not acting within the scope of their employment when they engaged in the harassment – and the employer had no actual knowledge of the conduct. The lifeguard then filed an appeal with the U. S. Supreme Court.

  [Supreme] Court Ruling

  Because the employer had failed to provide an effective sexual harassment policy or take corrective action to eliminate the harassing conduct, the Court found the employer liable for the sexual harassment that had occurred. Faragher v. City of Boca Raton, No. 97-282, U.S. Sup. Ct., 1998 WL 336322.

  Ref: Powers, Kinder & Keeney's, Rhode Island Employment Law Letter, EMPLOYER LIABILITY—Sexual harassment noose tightens for employers, August 1998: Vol. 3, No. 7

  In the Faragher v. City of Boca Raton, Faragher ultimately prevailed. This resulted precisely because of what I have said on this thread: the defendant did not provide an effective policy or take corrective action to eliminate SPECIFIC conduct in a SPECIFIC case. For THAT REASON the supervisor could not be argued to have been acting on his own when the DEFAULT was that he acted as an agent for his employer! If this employer HAD initiated effective policy and ACTED accordingly, then a defense existed based on a supervisor acting outside his or her scope of employment, as an agent for the employer.

  Get your facts straight.

  I won’t waste anymore time on your nonsense. Blabber all you want.